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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 535 the 20th of January

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2019 Richardson is coming to you along a

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country road side just outside of Bend

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Oregon I was spending a few days chillin

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out and I mean chillin up with my good

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friend Brian Dunning from skeptoid later

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on in the show we catch up with Brian's

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project who will news about Brian's

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project science friction to see how

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that's going along this is where he or

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the documentary will interview

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scientists who have been misrepresented

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in the media poor so a couple of degrees

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above zero I'm just out walking along

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the roadside here for exercise really

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and tramping on snow which is great fun

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for somebody from Sydney Australia also

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in this week's podcast the report of the

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live show of oh no Ross and Carrie which

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was a couple of days ago in Portland

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Oregon and we chat to rust Blocher after

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the show what a fantastic show was and

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great to see a live recording of a

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podcast in front of a very very

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hello dog you look a bit cold hey it's

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alright it's behind a fence hmm I don't

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think I'll get any closer I'm actually

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passing a paddock with no horses grazing

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just by the roadside here and I'm not

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used to seeing chains on car tires huh

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people who live in colder climates or

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think I'm I've lost the plot but to me

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it's very interesting and ahead to this

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week's show I go to the National Center

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for Science education in Oakland

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California and speak to Brad Hogg about

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the efforts of the center is making to

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help battle misinformation of climate

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change about climate change and what

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resources and help they can offer

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teachers around the world really when it

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comes to helping them to convey the

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science of climate change oh wow there's

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another horse grazing I don't know how I

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look at new respect for horses and cows

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and things seem to be they don't care

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about this cold weather

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it's just beautiful here in Bend Oregon

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and with somebody who has to give digs

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our listeners will may well know realize

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remember I don't cope well in the heat

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and humidity and to be here in a cold

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crisp environment dressed up gloves and

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breathing the cold air well to me it's

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pretty good

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ha I don't know where I'm walking to now

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just

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the other side of the road there's still

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lots of snow everywhere

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ah hello what's this big long patch of

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ice Wow

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better be careful well well I keep

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walking along this snowy road in search

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of something to eat he'll drink maybe a

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hot cup of coffee

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I hope you enjoy this week's skeptics

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urn

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[Music]

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since 2011 the Oh No Ross and Carrie

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podcast with Ross Blocher and Gary poppy

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who has been investigating science

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spirituality medicine fringe beliefs the

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motto of the podcast is when we show up

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and say you don't have to I had the

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pleasure of interviewing Russell Harry

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way back I think in about 2011 when

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their podcast was relatively new and now

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they're taking their show on the road I

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had the great pleasure of attending

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their performance in Portland Oregon

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where I caught up with Ross after the

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[Music]

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oh man

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tweet us your eyes like theoretically

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Alma right and obviously I think this

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all right I feel like I feel like

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something just brewing up in the

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[Applause]

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I was stepping out now I'm with a rush

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from ona rhosync a great show Ross thank

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you so much Richard thank you for coming

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out tonight yeah a big it was a full

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house I don't know how many people with

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that but it was a nice theater with a

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full house up up and down and you and

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Carrie came out and singing I did a

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really great show hey this is Carrie's

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idea that we come out singing part we're

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now not part of your world that's Little

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Mermaid this is a lot in a whole new

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world yes with the flat earth behind us

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which won't make any sense to people

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listening to it later but hopefully at

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least it made sense to everyone in the

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audience that's freezing cold out here

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on the street we were to put out our

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bags away and we'll have a chat in a

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minute Ross great to see you again we

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haven't seen each other for a few years

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likewise always wonderful to see you

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Richard

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and it's interesting only you know six

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or seven weeks ago Maynard was

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interviewing Carrie because she came to

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the convention in Australia I think

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we're gonna have to try and wrangle it

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so you come to visit too yes please

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oh yeah I I'm really excited to come

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down to Australia so please give me an

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excuse look into that but at a plane

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ticket and a plane ticket that always

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helps but as I was saying it was a

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really yeah it was a full venue tonight

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and when the crowd loving it though

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really into the show tonight thank you

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so much yeah it's you know you

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podcasting you know this you you talk

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into a microphone and you put it out

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somewhere as a file and you know

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eventually you hear that people listen

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to it but it's so great to meet people

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in person and and know that our message

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you know silly thing about this was

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haunted dolls in this particular case

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but just the the selling message of

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having fun with these kind of zany

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beliefs and exploring them from

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different angles resonates with people

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well it does and I could I could tell

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that by the reaction from the audience

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especially when they ask personal

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questions about children and pets

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yeah and that's always the amazing thing

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as people will stop by afterwards to

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tell us that you know maybe hearing us

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go through one of these adventures

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helped them as they were dealing with a

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sick loved one or going through a really

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hard time in their lives and you don't

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you don't anticipate something like that

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when you're talking about these issues

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and your haunted houses and Scientology

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and firewalking and all that but I guess

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sometimes that can just help people to

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sort of stay grounded and and maybe get

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out of get outside of whatever troubles

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they're facing now how long is the

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podcast I've never seen Carrie bean with

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the maximum fund it's it's a network of

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podcasters yeah since 2014 beginning of

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2014 so five years now Wow and yeah it's

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a great family with a lot of fantastic

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comedy and culture shows so you've got

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the McElroy brothers with a bunch of

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their shows Sawbones is one of my

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favorites looking for good

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recommendation reading glasses is

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another favorite there's my brother my

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brother and me judge John Hodgman all

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kinds of great content on that network

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so we're proud to be part of it I

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getting ready to see you again Russ

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thanks for doing the live show it was

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nice to catch up with Carrie papi as

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well and folks there's the message of

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course we wrote regular promos for

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Ross and Carrie and we look forward to

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your next adventure thank you so much

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Richard and yeah I'm sure our next

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adventure will be somewhere here in the

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this is NASA Hoshi a flat earth but we

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should lie to everybody about it and say

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it's round 10 for maximum fun brings you

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the latest podcasts and expose aren't

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the Flat Earth I want to take advantage

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of humankind and make them believe a lie

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so that they will trust us at the

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government it's all an elaborate lie and

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when you get on a plane they

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purposefully fly you farther than you

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need to go it's disgusting

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it needs to be stopped and if you listen

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to onna Ross and Carrie we will tell you

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the truth behind the lies we will just

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tell you the truth behind the truth

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because what we do is we look at

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extraordinary claims that's right we've

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gone undercover with alternative medical

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treatments fringe religious groups

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fringe science claims spiritual

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paranormal were there to check it out

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and let you know what happens is the

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Queen Mary haunted I don't know find out

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we show up we make friends we learn what

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happens when you ask questions and we

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tell you all about it and we get all

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that funky stuff done to us it's oh no

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Ross and Carrie maximumfun.org

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[Music]

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Brad hagh is the director of teacher

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support at the National Center for

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Science education Brad joined the

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National Center for Science education in

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2017 to help steward the NCSE teach into

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its next phase he has been a classroom

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teacher a children's museum curator

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a research scientist and a science

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educator including working as associate

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professor at the University of Houston

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downtown he holds a PhD in ecology and

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evolutionary biology from Rice

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University and Masters of Education in

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curriculum and instruction from Texas

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I decided to take the local transport

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options to meet with Brad Hoke

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you

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[Music]

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do the sounds of traffic roaring down a

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California Highway I'm at the Orang

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depart station but they Area Rapid

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Transit it's the local train system here

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in the San Francisco Bay Area and I'm on

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my way to the National Center for

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Science education in Oakland and looking

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forward to this I've been visiting the

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National Center now for Wow

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over ten years it's hard to remember

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certainly if you search the archives of

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the skeptic zone you'll see many times

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I've interviewed dr. eugenie Scott over

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Anne Reed who is the current director

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I'm on my way there now once again but

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this time the angle is going to be on

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[Applause]

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the long steps up from the bots

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stationed at 19th Street here in

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Oklahoma miss this neighborhood has

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lots of construction going on

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very colorful here

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a lot of the buildings have very large

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murals as I make my way around the

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corner on some streets and head to the

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and yes I've made it I've made it to the

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National Center for science education

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once again and I'm delighted to be back

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here and of course skeptic zone fans

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will know that we've been here many

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times over the years to talk to all

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sorts of people including you genus

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cotton and Reed today I'm talking to

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Brad hog hello Brad hello how are you

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I'm really well I'm really happy to be

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here I love to visit the the center here

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in Oakland and we look out the windows

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massive building going on in Oakland at

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least but I am here today normally I'm

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here to talk about creationism which is

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the old chestnut of course and the the

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work the center does to battle

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creationism and promote good science and

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that's still ongoing of course but the

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00:14:45,290 --> 00:14:42,750
more pressing issue now and something

277
00:14:47,390 --> 00:14:45,300
the center has taken on in the last four

278
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or five six years or so is climate

279
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:52,110
change and it's far more pressing in my

280
00:14:55,700 --> 00:14:53,730
mind certainly in Australia than

281
00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:55,710
creationism although I don't want to put

282
00:14:58,520 --> 00:14:57,210
that into the background too much

283
00:15:00,140 --> 00:14:58,530
because it's still an important issue

284
00:15:02,750 --> 00:15:00,150
probably more important here in the

285
00:15:04,460 --> 00:15:02,760
United States so I'm very interested I'm

286
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:04,470
sure that our listeners are interested

287
00:15:09,620 --> 00:15:06,810
to know exactly what the National Center

288
00:15:11,330 --> 00:15:09,630
for Science education is doing what do

289
00:15:14,630 --> 00:15:11,340
you have in place and how do you help

290
00:15:16,430 --> 00:15:14,640
especially teachers in this issue all

291
00:15:18,050 --> 00:15:16,440
right well we've recently established a

292
00:15:19,730 --> 00:15:18,060
program called our teacher ambassador

293
00:15:22,910 --> 00:15:19,740
program which is how we're addressing

294
00:15:25,340 --> 00:15:22,920
the issue directly and we're part of a

295
00:15:27,050 --> 00:15:25,350
larger network here that's called clean

296
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:27,060
and there are people all across the

297
00:15:30,170 --> 00:15:28,410
country who are working on climate

298
00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:30,180
change issues from an education side of

299
00:15:34,220 --> 00:15:32,880
things so we're not looking to try to do

300
00:15:35,930 --> 00:15:34,230
everything ourselves we have a

301
00:15:37,540 --> 00:15:35,940
particular niche where we think we're

302
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:37,550
really effective at communicating

303
00:15:42,260 --> 00:15:39,930
controversial issues without controversy

304
00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:42,270
and helping teachers know how to do that

305
00:15:47,150 --> 00:15:44,310
so the teacher ambassador program is

306
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:47,160
sort of a three-phase program first we

307
00:15:52,220 --> 00:15:50,010
recruit really strong teachers who are

308
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:52,230
in areas where it's difficult teaching

309
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:53,730
climate change but they've figured out

310
00:15:55,340 --> 00:15:54,930
how to do it and they're really good at

311
00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:55,350
it

312
00:15:58,700 --> 00:15:56,880
we have a wonderful group of eight

313
00:16:01,010 --> 00:15:58,710
teacher ambassadors that we've recruited

314
00:16:02,810 --> 00:16:01,020
for climate change we've met with them

315
00:16:05,150 --> 00:16:02,820
at George Mason University and working

316
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:05,160
with John Cook there to develop a series

317
00:16:09,390 --> 00:16:08,130
of five lessons so it's a five unit five

318
00:16:12,660 --> 00:16:09,400
lesson unit

319
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:12,670
that focuses on misconceptions this was

320
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:14,290
kind of in response to that Heartland

321
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:16,320
mailing with that challenge teachers

322
00:16:22,020 --> 00:16:18,730
with misinformation it was a very

323
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:22,030
deliberate attempt to to get teachers to

324
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:25,570
teach the wrong things and to think that

325
00:16:30,780 --> 00:16:28,930
climate change is not as a topic that is

326
00:16:32,510 --> 00:16:30,790
that is founded in science and so forth

327
00:16:35,100 --> 00:16:32,520
so we identified five specific

328
00:16:36,750 --> 00:16:35,110
misconceptions in that mailing and each

329
00:16:39,510 --> 00:16:36,760
of the five lessons addresses one of

330
00:16:42,060 --> 00:16:39,520
them the first one is based on consensus

331
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:42,070
the fact is that 97% of climate

332
00:16:48,090 --> 00:16:44,890
scientists support human impacts causing

333
00:16:49,860 --> 00:16:48,100
climate change so we have a lesson where

334
00:16:51,750 --> 00:16:49,870
the students actually work with the data

335
00:16:54,350 --> 00:16:51,760
themselves come to that conclusion

336
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:54,360
independently and then share their

337
00:16:59,220 --> 00:16:57,010
outcomes and and realize that no matter

338
00:17:01,170 --> 00:16:59,230
which line of evidence they studied it

339
00:17:03,210 --> 00:17:01,180
led to that conclusion that only the

340
00:17:05,309 --> 00:17:03,220
only explanation is that human impacts

341
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:05,319
are causing climate change from there

342
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:06,610
they look at models they look at the

343
00:17:10,050 --> 00:17:08,410
Paleo record they look at and then they

344
00:17:12,660 --> 00:17:10,060
look at to the last two lessons are

345
00:17:16,679 --> 00:17:12,670
place based so the teachers find issues

346
00:17:18,420 --> 00:17:16,689
where they are that are I mean where

347
00:17:21,199 --> 00:17:18,430
climate changes of the underlying cause

348
00:17:24,449 --> 00:17:21,209
so whether it's wildfires or droughts or

349
00:17:26,790 --> 00:17:24,459
decrease snowfall in in in some areas

350
00:17:28,199 --> 00:17:26,800
they design their lesson around that and

351
00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:28,209
get the students involved with data

352
00:17:33,870 --> 00:17:30,880
about their local issues and then the

353
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:33,880
final one looking at solutions most of

354
00:17:36,930 --> 00:17:35,050
the time a lot of times it's more

355
00:17:39,690 --> 00:17:36,940
effective to start with solutions to get

356
00:17:41,130 --> 00:17:39,700
people involved in a conversation but we

357
00:17:43,530 --> 00:17:41,140
found that with this lesson if we

358
00:17:46,830 --> 00:17:43,540
started with with the not you know

359
00:17:48,180 --> 00:17:46,840
inoculating students about with data by

360
00:17:50,450 --> 00:17:48,190
the time we get to solutions they're

361
00:17:53,670 --> 00:17:50,460
really on board to look at it a lot more

362
00:17:55,740 --> 00:17:53,680
as something they can be involved in and

363
00:17:58,170 --> 00:17:55,750
and so that that place-based education

364
00:17:59,700 --> 00:17:58,180
works really well the ultimate goal

365
00:18:01,530 --> 00:17:59,710
though that you know those lessons were

366
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:01,540
field tested by the eighth ambassador

367
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:03,610
teachers or teacher ambassadors in their

368
00:18:07,110 --> 00:18:05,410
own classrooms and anjana's assessed

369
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:07,120
that the effectiveness of that and it

370
00:18:11,130 --> 00:18:08,890
worked really well so we're currently

371
00:18:13,230 --> 00:18:11,140
working with them to set up workshops in

372
00:18:15,420 --> 00:18:13,240
their areas where they are to try to

373
00:18:18,450 --> 00:18:15,430
reach teachers that wouldn't normally

374
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:18,460
come to a a workshop with the words

375
00:18:21,630 --> 00:18:20,410
climate change in it or you know

376
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:21,640
anything that they might because what

377
00:18:23,740 --> 00:18:22,130
we've

378
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:23,750
from our own surveys is that teachers

379
00:18:27,870 --> 00:18:25,450
are avoiding teaching climate change

380
00:18:30,250 --> 00:18:27,880
primarily because it's controversial and

381
00:18:32,740 --> 00:18:30,260
somewhat because they also share those

382
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:32,750
misconceptions so we're trying to get to

383
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:34,490
those teachers that the teachers that

384
00:18:37,870 --> 00:18:35,690
might be a little tentative about

385
00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:37,880
wanting to teach climate change and if

386
00:18:41,860 --> 00:18:40,160
we can get our teacher ambassadors to

387
00:18:43,450 --> 00:18:41,870
then reach them and give them these

388
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:43,460
lessons and teach them how to do these

389
00:18:48,190 --> 00:18:46,250
lessons then we then we're going to be

390
00:18:50,380 --> 00:18:48,200
able to saturate into that portion of

391
00:18:52,020 --> 00:18:50,390
the teaching population that is not

392
00:18:54,340 --> 00:18:52,030
teaching climate change effectively

393
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:54,350
we've already done a series of webinars

394
00:18:57,670 --> 00:18:56,210
with these lessons with a partner

395
00:19:00,580 --> 00:18:57,680
organization called the Alliance for

396
00:19:02,110 --> 00:19:00,590
climate education or ace and those went

397
00:19:04,570 --> 00:19:02,120
extremely well as well so those are

398
00:19:06,670 --> 00:19:04,580
available on our website along with the

399
00:19:08,350 --> 00:19:06,680
lessons themselves it's interesting when

400
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:08,360
you're talking about that some teachers

401
00:19:11,890 --> 00:19:10,490
are hesitant it does now remind me of

402
00:19:14,170 --> 00:19:11,900
some of the problems with the

403
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:14,180
creationism yeah I think there are a lot

404
00:19:18,130 --> 00:19:16,970
of parallels they're interesting

405
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:18,140
particularly with our misconception

406
00:19:22,090 --> 00:19:19,370
based focus because we also have a

407
00:19:24,790 --> 00:19:22,100
similar group of teacher ambassadors for

408
00:19:26,790 --> 00:19:24,800
evolution and similarly based on five

409
00:19:28,870 --> 00:19:26,800
misconceptions and so forth

410
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:28,880
misconceptions around creationism or

411
00:19:34,870 --> 00:19:32,210
mostly larger conceptual misconceptions

412
00:19:36,670 --> 00:19:34,880
as well as of course the conflicts that

413
00:19:39,340 --> 00:19:36,680
many people see between evolution and

414
00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:39,350
religion which is why we work with a man

415
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:41,120
to glaze on that one and she's a really

416
00:19:44,230 --> 00:19:42,410
effective at being able to communicate

417
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:44,240
how that it doesn't need to be a

418
00:19:47,980 --> 00:19:46,160
conflict there and you can learn about

419
00:19:51,310 --> 00:19:47,990
evolution and still have faith that

420
00:19:53,260 --> 00:19:51,320
doesn't but that's an aside I think to

421
00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:53,270
get to this point the similarities being

422
00:19:59,650 --> 00:19:57,200
that climate change misconceptions are a

423
00:20:02,280 --> 00:19:59,660
little bit more logical fallacy because

424
00:20:05,050 --> 00:20:02,290
they're based on misconceptions that

425
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:05,060
people have naturally due to their

426
00:20:10,060 --> 00:20:07,490
inability to grapple with probabilities

427
00:20:11,940 --> 00:20:10,070
and changing frequencies and personal

428
00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:11,950
biases but more fundamentally

429
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:15,190
ideologically resistant to the idea of

430
00:20:20,140 --> 00:20:18,290
climate change on a political level or

431
00:20:23,740 --> 00:20:20,150
an ideological level because it doesn't

432
00:20:25,330 --> 00:20:23,750
align with what their their beliefs are

433
00:20:27,070 --> 00:20:25,340
in that sense so there's a there's kind

434
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:27,080
of an underlying similarity in terms of

435
00:20:31,370 --> 00:20:29,930
the misconceptions being bolstered by an

436
00:20:35,659 --> 00:20:31,380
ideological or

437
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:35,669
religious resistance to just allowing

438
00:20:41,060 --> 00:20:39,090
that information to be true now one of

439
00:20:43,220 --> 00:20:41,070
the problems we have in Australia and I

440
00:20:46,220 --> 00:20:43,230
think it's reflected here on vice-versa

441
00:20:49,130 --> 00:20:46,230
ah is the conservative media especially

442
00:20:51,140 --> 00:20:49,140
what we call the shock jocks and the the

443
00:20:56,270 --> 00:20:51,150
conservative talkback

444
00:20:59,299 --> 00:20:56,280
calling announcers who it's almost a

445
00:21:02,990 --> 00:20:59,309
religion with them to rail against this

446
00:21:04,340 --> 00:21:03,000
thing of climate change I imagine you've

447
00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:04,350
come across the same sort of thing here

448
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:07,110
yes definitely I think when we I tried

449
00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:08,730
intend to use the word ideology rather

450
00:21:12,409 --> 00:21:10,710
than Pollak political but it's kind of

451
00:21:14,810 --> 00:21:12,419
the same thing that I'm referring to and

452
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:14,820
it's you know there's there's there is a

453
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:19,770
group of or a mindset rather of this

454
00:21:25,970 --> 00:21:21,510
globe just fight against a globalization

455
00:21:28,460 --> 00:21:25,980
of our economy and the fact or the idea

456
00:21:30,590 --> 00:21:28,470
that somehow climate change is part of

457
00:21:34,220 --> 00:21:30,600
that agenda that because it's a global

458
00:21:36,020 --> 00:21:34,230
issue that our intent as by teaching

459
00:21:39,169 --> 00:21:36,030
climate change is to actually try to

460
00:21:42,350 --> 00:21:39,179
make you break down American democracy

461
00:21:43,940 --> 00:21:42,360
and turn it into a globalized and that's

462
00:21:46,850 --> 00:21:43,950
that's really what's coming to what they

463
00:21:49,340 --> 00:21:46,860
feel ya feel sometimes yeah and even if

464
00:21:51,730 --> 00:21:49,350
it's not as upfront in their minds I

465
00:21:54,409 --> 00:21:51,740
think that's sort of the underlying

466
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:54,419
anxieties that drive that ideology is

467
00:22:00,020 --> 00:21:57,690
that climate changes is it is a

468
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:00,030
conspiracy of sorts to try to achieve

469
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:04,110
this liberal agenda of expanding

470
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:05,730
government because the response to

471
00:22:11,090 --> 00:22:07,530
climate change would be mostly a

472
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:11,100
governmental issue and globalizing our

473
00:22:16,279 --> 00:22:13,280
economy and both of those things are

474
00:22:19,899 --> 00:22:16,289
ideologically anathema to them or yeah

475
00:22:22,190 --> 00:22:19,909
and so that's the underlying and

476
00:22:24,010 --> 00:22:22,200
underlying aspect of that and I think

477
00:22:26,870 --> 00:22:24,020
that that's why a lot of the the

478
00:22:29,570 --> 00:22:26,880
rhetoric on that again is very illogical

479
00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:29,580
if you break it down a lot of a lot

480
00:22:33,860 --> 00:22:31,710
logical fallacy used to try to attack

481
00:22:37,130 --> 00:22:33,870
the climate science a lot of

482
00:22:40,430 --> 00:22:37,140
cherry-picking of data a lot of you know

483
00:22:42,980 --> 00:22:40,440
false experts trying to claim that

484
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:42,990
scientists outside of you know when you

485
00:22:47,210 --> 00:22:45,690
look at that 97% consensus number that's

486
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:47,220
of climate scientists those are the

487
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:48,809
scientists who were studying studying

488
00:22:54,860 --> 00:22:51,360
climate directly if you ask a petroleum

489
00:22:56,570 --> 00:22:54,870
geologist or a chemist or a physicist

490
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:56,580
they're not going to have the expertise

491
00:22:59,690 --> 00:22:57,840
to really be able to judge it so

492
00:23:02,030 --> 00:22:59,700
obviously they're able to go into some

493
00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:02,040
of the fine scientists who are quote

494
00:23:06,980 --> 00:23:04,559
scientists who would deny climate change

495
00:23:08,299 --> 00:23:06,990
or deny human impact but they're not the

496
00:23:10,820 --> 00:23:08,309
climate scientists who were studying

497
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:10,830
climate this is a great point because

498
00:23:15,290 --> 00:23:12,690
you know if I glanced towards my notes

499
00:23:16,460 --> 00:23:15,300
is exactly the the the notes I've

500
00:23:18,830 --> 00:23:16,470
written here for this interview

501
00:23:20,540 --> 00:23:18,840
cherry-picking I've put here and experts

502
00:23:21,950 --> 00:23:20,550
and this is very important we'll get

503
00:23:25,910 --> 00:23:21,960
back to these shock jocks and whatever

504
00:23:30,770 --> 00:23:25,920
the conservative media because they will

505
00:23:34,549 --> 00:23:30,780
have on their show an expert and a

506
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:34,559
scientist right and that to them is game

507
00:23:37,940 --> 00:23:36,090
set and match right you know they've

508
00:23:40,010 --> 00:23:37,950
found somebody who agrees with their

509
00:23:41,870 --> 00:23:40,020
side of the story they interview them

510
00:23:43,460 --> 00:23:41,880
and they say after you new view they say

511
00:23:45,530 --> 00:23:43,470
to the audience well there you are there

512
00:23:47,180 --> 00:23:45,540
you are this person has is an expert in

513
00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:47,190
whatever they are a scientist and they

514
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:50,400
say it's it's all it's all baloney and I

515
00:23:54,380 --> 00:23:52,410
guess that happens here it would happen

516
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:54,390
here more yeah and there's there's two

517
00:23:58,910 --> 00:23:56,010
ways that it happens I think there's one

518
00:24:01,100 --> 00:23:58,920
very again deliberate way and this goes

519
00:24:03,890 --> 00:24:01,110
back to the tobacco Wars and as the

520
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:03,900
climate Wars as well in the u.s. kiss

521
00:24:09,710 --> 00:24:07,410
has documented that quite well in her

522
00:24:11,870 --> 00:24:09,720
book the merchants of doubt' and so

523
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:11,880
that's an attempt to actually recruit

524
00:24:18,350 --> 00:24:15,090
scientists who are willing to to say

525
00:24:20,570 --> 00:24:18,360
what the you know to attack science and

526
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:20,580
to try to make it sound like well

527
00:24:23,810 --> 00:24:22,290
they're scientists and and so they're

528
00:24:25,780 --> 00:24:23,820
they're saying that this isn't good

529
00:24:28,010 --> 00:24:25,790
science it's not bad science and so

530
00:24:30,230 --> 00:24:28,020
that's a deliberate attempt

531
00:24:31,580 --> 00:24:30,240
there's also however just there are

532
00:24:34,910 --> 00:24:31,590
scientists who are outside of their

533
00:24:37,490 --> 00:24:34,920
field who feel like they have some

534
00:24:38,870 --> 00:24:37,500
capacity for analyzing data sort of from

535
00:24:40,850 --> 00:24:38,880
the periphery and coming up with

536
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:40,860
conclusions and having the same sort of

537
00:24:45,500 --> 00:24:43,890
ideological anxieties and it drives them

538
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:45,510
to bad conclusions I mean that's always

539
00:24:50,690 --> 00:24:47,850
been true in science is true and

540
00:24:53,030 --> 00:24:50,700
that's why science as a process works by

541
00:24:55,700 --> 00:24:53,040
peer review and constant repetition and

542
00:24:59,210 --> 00:24:55,710
and so forth so over decades of research

543
00:25:01,760 --> 00:24:59,220
on climate change the climate experts

544
00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:01,770
have seen the impact that that our own

545
00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:03,510
activities have had and they're pretty

546
00:25:07,910 --> 00:25:06,240
settled on it and it's it's something

547
00:25:09,169 --> 00:25:07,920
that they're confident about but outside

548
00:25:11,090 --> 00:25:09,179
of that on the peripheries those

549
00:25:13,220 --> 00:25:11,100
anxieties that underlie a lot of the

550
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:13,230
denial they exist in scientists as well

551
00:25:17,299 --> 00:25:15,330
and some of them are willing to to speak

552
00:25:19,220 --> 00:25:17,309
to that but I think the bigger problem

553
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:19,230
and in what you're talking about with

554
00:25:22,669 --> 00:25:21,450
these shock jocks is still till there

555
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:22,679
are a group of scientists they were

556
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:25,440
almost specifically targeted over and

557
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:28,890
over again to deny different types of

558
00:25:35,090 --> 00:25:31,050
science it's just kind of even become a

559
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:35,100
career for some wow that's interesting

560
00:25:40,580 --> 00:25:38,010
now I I don't know what the situation

561
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:40,590
here was in the United States last year

562
00:25:44,810 --> 00:25:43,200
in November there was a strike a student

563
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:44,820
strike which undoubtedly you've heard

564
00:25:51,710 --> 00:25:48,720
about a note I think it it started in

565
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:51,720
Sweden now if I'm correct with a student

566
00:25:53,060 --> 00:25:52,890
there or wasn't Norway or something like

567
00:25:55,490 --> 00:25:53,070
that

568
00:25:57,470 --> 00:25:55,500
listen his honor and it made its way to

569
00:26:00,710 --> 00:25:57,480
Australia and one day in Australia in

570
00:26:02,270 --> 00:26:00,720
late November there was a big strike and

571
00:26:03,860 --> 00:26:02,280
thousands of students didn't go to

572
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:03,870
school they all turned up in the center

573
00:26:06,860 --> 00:26:05,370
of Sydney and held up protests about

574
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:06,870
climate change and one of the government

575
00:26:14,570 --> 00:26:11,250
to do something and I couldn't help

576
00:26:15,470 --> 00:26:14,580
think that there was it was good of them

577
00:26:18,500 --> 00:26:15,480
to do that because they obviously

578
00:26:20,090 --> 00:26:18,510
passionate and concerned but I was

579
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:20,100
wondering I couldn't help wondering if

580
00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:22,559
they were doing the right thing for the

581
00:26:26,540 --> 00:26:24,809
wrong reasons in other words do they

582
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:26,550
actually have enough knowledge or they

583
00:26:33,910 --> 00:26:30,650
simply jumping on the bandwagon of of

584
00:26:37,250 --> 00:26:33,920
this even if it's the right conclusion

585
00:26:39,410 --> 00:26:37,260
and I just wondered what you'd think

586
00:26:42,890 --> 00:26:39,420
about the the the younger generation

587
00:26:45,799 --> 00:26:42,900
taking such action well I think I think

588
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:45,809
that it's a part of of how we are

589
00:26:50,660 --> 00:26:47,610
approaching you know we certainly

590
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:50,670
support students in in expressing

591
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:53,490
themselves in that way and here in the

592
00:26:56,990 --> 00:26:55,650
US I think it's been more of a court

593
00:26:58,910 --> 00:26:57,000
case students have actually brought

594
00:27:03,140 --> 00:26:58,920
against different states about

595
00:27:05,540 --> 00:27:03,150
they're being denied a quality education

596
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:05,550
by not having climate change and there's

597
00:27:08,690 --> 00:27:07,170
those typically that haven't gone very

598
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:08,700
far yet but they're still working their

599
00:27:11,690 --> 00:27:10,290
way through the court system to some

600
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:11,700
level and there are a lot of programs

601
00:27:16,490 --> 00:27:13,770
that are that are meant to empower the

602
00:27:18,170 --> 00:27:16,500
youth in terms of climate action and

603
00:27:20,510 --> 00:27:18,180
things like that and doing something a

604
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:20,520
lot of a lot of the groups are looking

605
00:27:24,650 --> 00:27:21,840
for making their communities more

606
00:27:26,750 --> 00:27:24,660
resilient by getting students involved

607
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:26,760
in not only understanding climate change

608
00:27:31,310 --> 00:27:28,530
but then translating that into things

609
00:27:33,590 --> 00:27:31,320
they can do locally to to make a

610
00:27:35,870 --> 00:27:33,600
difference in terms of drought or water

611
00:27:37,850 --> 00:27:35,880
issues or agricultural issues and so on

612
00:27:40,340 --> 00:27:37,860
and I mentioned earlier that you know we

613
00:27:43,670 --> 00:27:40,350
sort of take our own niche in this

614
00:27:45,470 --> 00:27:43,680
bigger piece and that is to to get to

615
00:27:47,810 --> 00:27:45,480
those misconceptions that inoculate

616
00:27:49,420 --> 00:27:47,820
students against them in a way that they

617
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:49,430
can really understand the issues

618
00:27:53,660 --> 00:27:52,290
obviously most of these students haven't

619
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:53,670
studied climate change to a level where

620
00:27:57,230 --> 00:27:55,650
where they understand the issues and so

621
00:27:58,790 --> 00:27:57,240
thoroughly that they can speak to in a

622
00:28:01,880 --> 00:27:58,800
way they're an expert would but that's

623
00:28:05,330 --> 00:28:01,890
not that's not necessary as long as

624
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:05,340
they're focusing on action Nets is built

625
00:28:08,390 --> 00:28:06,930
around finding solutions to real

626
00:28:10,790 --> 00:28:08,400
problems I think that that's very

627
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:10,800
productive well it is a huge problem for

628
00:28:16,550 --> 00:28:13,290
us and we don't know what the next five

629
00:28:17,900 --> 00:28:16,560
or ten years will bring because and

630
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:17,910
again I haven't seen the latest research

631
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:20,010
but I don't think it's slowing down any

632
00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:23,130
and I don't know what the next decade

633
00:28:30,740 --> 00:28:26,130
decade will bring us in terms of direct

634
00:28:34,100 --> 00:28:30,750
impact on our climate on society etc but

635
00:28:35,900 --> 00:28:34,110
I think the kids are doing a good thing

636
00:28:39,380 --> 00:28:35,910
but you're right I I don't think they

637
00:28:41,900 --> 00:28:39,390
have the knowledge to really speak to

638
00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:41,910
what they're doing right but they're

639
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:43,710
passionate enough and I guess it's a

640
00:28:46,910 --> 00:28:45,450
generational thing too isn't it it's

641
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:46,920
certainly a generation I think this

642
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:48,330
generation is coming up my daughter's

643
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:51,410
part of it yeah they do have a sense of

644
00:28:57,500 --> 00:28:55,410
activism they want to make change part

645
00:28:58,550 --> 00:28:57,510
of their lives and so I definitely think

646
00:29:01,130 --> 00:28:58,560
that there's an energy in this

647
00:29:02,930 --> 00:29:01,140
generation that is very positive I think

648
00:29:05,420 --> 00:29:02,940
speaking to your earlier question too as

649
00:29:08,090 --> 00:29:05,430
long as this one is that there is kind

650
00:29:09,769 --> 00:29:08,100
of maybe a razor's edge in terms of

651
00:29:12,049 --> 00:29:09,779
doing good and doing day

652
00:29:13,820 --> 00:29:12,059
and conceptually with climate change and

653
00:29:14,869 --> 00:29:13,830
a lot of the people that fight climate

654
00:29:16,430 --> 00:29:14,879
change and deny it

655
00:29:19,070 --> 00:29:16,440
we'll take advantage of some of that

656
00:29:21,769 --> 00:29:19,080
naivete at times and in sort of try to

657
00:29:23,810 --> 00:29:21,779
undo some of those efforts and the

658
00:29:26,229 --> 00:29:23,820
impact for on extreme weather for

659
00:29:29,659 --> 00:29:26,239
instance is one of those areas where

660
00:29:31,580 --> 00:29:29,669
climate change is not causing a specific

661
00:29:34,279 --> 00:29:31,590
hurricane or a specific drought or a

662
00:29:36,739 --> 00:29:34,289
specific wildfire but it's contributing

663
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:36,749
because it's increasing the odds of

664
00:29:40,249 --> 00:29:39,090
those things happening that's a very

665
00:29:42,379 --> 00:29:40,259
tricky thing to really communicate

666
00:29:44,659 --> 00:29:42,389
effectively and we're in the science

667
00:29:46,639 --> 00:29:44,669
behind it is really still evolving in

668
00:29:48,259 --> 00:29:46,649
terms of getting the data there is clear

669
00:29:50,599 --> 00:29:48,269
data now that's clear enough to make

670
00:29:53,450 --> 00:29:50,609
that connection that we can connect

671
00:29:55,999 --> 00:29:53,460
climate change to these events but it's

672
00:29:57,979 --> 00:29:56,009
not a direct causal relationship and

673
00:30:00,889 --> 00:29:57,989
that is easily turn into a misconception

674
00:30:02,299 --> 00:30:00,899
by somebody who wants to deny it you

675
00:30:03,859 --> 00:30:02,309
know that wants to say oh this is just

676
00:30:05,299 --> 00:30:03,869
something that's happened to all the

677
00:30:08,479 --> 00:30:05,309
time we've always had extreme weather

678
00:30:10,999 --> 00:30:08,489
there's no connection and so unless you

679
00:30:12,589 --> 00:30:11,009
can really talk about well the

680
00:30:14,269 --> 00:30:12,599
connection what the connection is and

681
00:30:16,430 --> 00:30:14,279
that it's that there's more heat in the

682
00:30:19,969 --> 00:30:16,440
oceans or there's you know there's and

683
00:30:21,709 --> 00:30:19,979
there's perhaps more you know drier air

684
00:30:23,119 --> 00:30:21,719
in the jet stream or the jet streams

685
00:30:25,369 --> 00:30:23,129
weaker and various things that are

686
00:30:27,499 --> 00:30:25,379
contributing to those extreme events but

687
00:30:29,599 --> 00:30:27,509
it's not a direct directly causing them

688
00:30:31,249 --> 00:30:29,609
and that's a difficult thing to do now

689
00:30:33,979 --> 00:30:31,259
let's sir before we wrap up let's go on

690
00:30:35,269 --> 00:30:33,989
another little tangent here and I don't

691
00:30:37,099 --> 00:30:35,279
know if this is something that the

692
00:30:41,509 --> 00:30:37,109
center will have to address one day or

693
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:41,519
not but I've been absolutely dumbfounded

694
00:30:48,259 --> 00:30:44,450
by the rise of the Flat Earth movement

695
00:30:50,629 --> 00:30:48,269
yeah is this impacting on anything you

696
00:30:54,469 --> 00:30:50,639
do here or is it just so bizarre and

697
00:30:56,749 --> 00:30:54,479
crazy it's always been part of kind of

698
00:30:58,339 --> 00:30:56,759
what we do when we approach evolution

699
00:31:00,829 --> 00:30:58,349
and misconceptions about evolution

700
00:31:02,869 --> 00:31:00,839
because it it's in the nature of science

701
00:31:04,489 --> 00:31:02,879
we've just added it actually we're going

702
00:31:06,769 --> 00:31:04,499
to recruit teachers in addition to our

703
00:31:08,119 --> 00:31:06,779
climate change ambassador to teacher

704
00:31:09,229 --> 00:31:08,129
ambassadors and our evolution teacher

705
00:31:11,869 --> 00:31:09,239
ambassadors are gonna have a nature of

706
00:31:13,459 --> 00:31:11,879
science group specifically focused on

707
00:31:15,229 --> 00:31:13,469
the nature of science because anytime

708
00:31:16,849 --> 00:31:15,239
we're with our evolution teachers or our

709
00:31:19,339 --> 00:31:16,859
climate change teachers it inevitably

710
00:31:21,710 --> 00:31:19,349
comes around to a discussion about well

711
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:21,720
how does you know it's the nature of

712
00:31:24,919 --> 00:31:23,010
science that

713
00:31:27,980 --> 00:31:24,929
the students need to learn here because

714
00:31:29,330 --> 00:31:27,990
that's what most of the misconception a

715
00:31:32,390 --> 00:31:29,340
lot of the misconceptions are tied into

716
00:31:35,659 --> 00:31:32,400
misconceptions about science itself and

717
00:31:38,930 --> 00:31:35,669
the Flat Earth it's kind of become just

718
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:38,940
a fad to think or a media source it's

719
00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:40,650
always been there that the group those

720
00:31:45,230 --> 00:31:43,049
groups have always been around it's

721
00:31:47,330 --> 00:31:45,240
become over the last two years yeah the

722
00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:47,340
last few years a few celebrities and

723
00:31:52,549 --> 00:31:49,110
athletes or whatever have kind of made

724
00:31:54,770 --> 00:31:52,559
it I think sort of a new fad I don't

725
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:54,780
know that it'll have any more traction

726
00:31:59,299 --> 00:31:57,090
now than it has in the past so we're not

727
00:32:01,280 --> 00:31:59,309
focused at least at this point on that

728
00:32:03,049 --> 00:32:01,290
is our front I hope you don't have to be

729
00:32:05,690 --> 00:32:03,059
now and I don't think we will but we

730
00:32:07,700 --> 00:32:05,700
certainly monitor all of that because it

731
00:32:09,980 --> 00:32:07,710
is worth being able to tell a teacher

732
00:32:11,630 --> 00:32:09,990
you know this this is all part of the

733
00:32:13,789 --> 00:32:11,640
nature of why we need people to be

734
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:13,799
literate scientifically literate and why

735
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:15,330
they need to understand how science is

736
00:32:21,650 --> 00:32:18,720
done and how it provides explanation and

737
00:32:23,150 --> 00:32:21,660
in four phenomena and it's not just a

738
00:32:25,010 --> 00:32:23,160
matter of opinion it's not just well you

739
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:25,020
think this and I think that so you know

740
00:32:29,299 --> 00:32:26,730
we can have this debate science doesn't

741
00:32:32,150 --> 00:32:29,309
operate that way I like to say you know

742
00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:32,160
science doesn't proceed by debate you

743
00:32:35,630 --> 00:32:34,320
don't have two sides that say I believe

744
00:32:36,650 --> 00:32:35,640
one thing and the other side believes

745
00:32:38,330 --> 00:32:36,660
the other and they come to some

746
00:32:40,100 --> 00:32:38,340
consensus in the middle and that's not

747
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:40,110
what we mean by consensus when we talk

748
00:32:46,909 --> 00:32:42,530
about a consensus of experts in science

749
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:46,919
it's the data that tells them what is

750
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:49,650
right what what the evidence is and so

751
00:32:53,150 --> 00:32:52,410
it's not a it's not a compromise it's an

752
00:32:55,430 --> 00:32:53,160
agreement

753
00:32:57,140 --> 00:32:55,440
due to their finding the same

754
00:32:58,850 --> 00:32:57,150
conclusions over and over again through

755
00:33:01,130 --> 00:32:58,860
different lines of evidence but the

756
00:33:04,250 --> 00:33:01,140
evidence it's the data that drives that

757
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:04,260
consensus not compromise and finally

758
00:33:08,390 --> 00:33:06,960
bread what can people do teaches here in

759
00:33:09,140 --> 00:33:08,400
the United States and teachers around

760
00:33:12,169 --> 00:33:09,150
the world

761
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:12,179
I guess visiting the website here and is

762
00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:14,730
a good Stan yeah we're we're redesigning

763
00:33:18,980 --> 00:33:16,710
our website right now right now there's

764
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:18,990
a we do have our lessons available and

765
00:33:23,450 --> 00:33:21,330
the webinars that we did with ace are

766
00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:23,460
available but in the next few months

767
00:33:26,990 --> 00:33:25,440
we're going to be unveiling a lot more

768
00:33:29,180 --> 00:33:27,000
resources for teachers that'll be a lot

769
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:29,190
easier to navigate and so forth so

770
00:33:33,140 --> 00:33:31,530
that's probably going to be two or three

771
00:33:35,289 --> 00:33:33,150
months before it's completed but I would

772
00:33:37,930 --> 00:33:35,299
certainly invite anybody to visit

773
00:33:39,310 --> 00:33:37,940
website or to contact me directly about

774
00:33:42,909 --> 00:33:39,320
any of the resources I'm talking about

775
00:33:45,100 --> 00:33:42,919
or any of the issues that they might

776
00:33:46,690 --> 00:33:45,110
have questions they may have so there

777
00:33:48,549 --> 00:33:46,700
you are folks especially teachers out

778
00:33:54,220 --> 00:33:48,559
there no matter where in the world you

779
00:33:56,229 --> 00:33:54,230
are if you visit WWN si se comm you'll

780
00:33:58,269 --> 00:33:56,239
find all the resources and information

781
00:34:00,039 --> 00:33:58,279
there and of course you can contact the

782
00:34:02,019 --> 00:34:00,049
good people here directly for any help

783
00:34:03,970 --> 00:34:02,029
well Brad hagh thank you very much for

784
00:34:06,460 --> 00:34:03,980
your time today and I look forward to

785
00:34:08,289 --> 00:34:06,470
maybe interviewing you again in a year

786
00:34:10,240 --> 00:34:08,299
or two to see how we're progressing yeah

787
00:34:11,829 --> 00:34:10,250
that would be wonderful it's it's an

788
00:34:13,260 --> 00:34:11,839
ever-changing thing to think interesting

789
00:34:17,409 --> 00:34:13,270
thing about climate change is that it's

790
00:34:18,789 --> 00:34:17,419
it is a new part of Education I mean

791
00:34:20,799 --> 00:34:18,799
it's just now getting into the standards

792
00:34:23,319 --> 00:34:20,809
it's just now being a need for teachers

793
00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:23,329
to teach this and so the resources are

794
00:34:26,319 --> 00:34:25,129
being developed as we speak and so a

795
00:34:27,419 --> 00:34:26,329
year from now there's gonna be a lot

796
00:34:36,020 --> 00:34:27,429
more talking about

797
00:34:36,030 --> 00:34:41,300
you told me

798
00:34:41,310 --> 00:34:44,419
cysts

799
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:48,030
CSO simply idiot hey Sal you guys guys I

800
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:50,290
just had the most amazing experience

801
00:34:53,849 --> 00:34:52,210
what experience on dress under Chevy

802
00:34:55,980 --> 00:34:53,859
been to the pub children nuts hang out

803
00:34:58,410 --> 00:34:55,990
with mash you know he was blessed by

804
00:35:01,260 --> 00:34:58,420
peter Popoff no Yellin I'm not talking

805
00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:01,270
about psychics it was a really SP

806
00:35:04,980 --> 00:35:03,250
experience now you have been to the pub

807
00:35:05,460 --> 00:35:04,990
either that or you've been smoking

808
00:35:07,980 --> 00:35:05,470
something

809
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:07,990
no punters the ESB is the European

810
00:35:12,359 --> 00:35:10,210
sceptics podcast it's the most amazing

811
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:12,369
thing you get to know so much about

812
00:35:17,099 --> 00:35:14,170
sceptics and their activities across

813
00:35:18,690 --> 00:35:17,109
Europe you know events hot topics and

814
00:35:21,089 --> 00:35:18,700
interviews with lots of interesting

815
00:35:22,410 --> 00:35:21,099
people oh wow cool by the way punters

816
00:35:25,260 --> 00:35:22,420
you just come into the false dichotomy

817
00:35:26,790 --> 00:35:25,270
fallacy I guess that means I'm really

818
00:35:28,290 --> 00:35:26,800
wrong yep

819
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:28,300
then you can even learn about those

820
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:30,250
fallacies in the show and hear about

821
00:35:35,339 --> 00:35:32,650
people spreading silly ideas you should

822
00:35:38,250 --> 00:35:35,349
really check it out it's the ESP the

823
00:35:40,890 --> 00:35:38,260
European sceptics podcast it's on never

824
00:35:43,079 --> 00:35:40,900
weak all right so where can I get this

825
00:35:45,540 --> 00:35:43,089
is the experience it sounds good

826
00:35:48,599 --> 00:35:45,550
you can go online at the ESP dotty you

827
00:35:51,630 --> 00:35:48,609
follow it on twitter at es podcast

828
00:35:53,789 --> 00:35:51,640
underscore EU or like the podcast on

829
00:35:56,849 --> 00:35:53,799
Facebook oh and you can also contact the

830
00:36:00,660 --> 00:35:56,859
show by sending them an email to info at

831
00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:00,670
the ESPE you and if you want to

832
00:36:05,450 --> 00:36:02,710
subscribe do a quick search for the

833
00:36:11,460 --> 00:36:05,460
European skeptic podcast on soundcloud

834
00:36:16,810 --> 00:36:11,470
iTunes or stitcher I don't know how you

835
00:36:29,180 --> 00:36:25,470
[Music]

836
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:32,270
Brian Dunning hello hello sir how are

837
00:36:36,339 --> 00:36:33,450
you good to see you as always

838
00:36:39,260 --> 00:36:36,349
thank you we're sitting here in the

839
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:39,270
downstairs section of skeptoid media's

840
00:36:45,079 --> 00:36:41,490
palatial headquarters Thunder wood ranch

841
00:36:47,150 --> 00:36:45,089
and we're delighted because a couple of

842
00:36:49,789 --> 00:36:47,160
minutes ago you look out the window and

843
00:36:51,890 --> 00:36:49,799
the snow is snowing the snow snow to

844
00:36:53,510 --> 00:36:51,900
snowfall what's happening all right now

845
00:36:55,490 --> 00:36:53,520
you would say it's really dumping

846
00:36:57,260 --> 00:36:55,500
because it really is it's pick out the

847
00:37:00,049 --> 00:36:57,270
front that's crazy

848
00:37:01,460 --> 00:37:00,059
lot of snow when we went up before to

849
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:01,470
make a quick video for the folks back

850
00:37:04,420 --> 00:37:03,450
home and we came back inside and it's

851
00:37:08,029 --> 00:37:04,430
really coming down

852
00:37:09,980 --> 00:37:08,039
Brian Oh wonderful to see you I love

853
00:37:13,370 --> 00:37:09,990
coming to bend the first time here in

854
00:37:15,170 --> 00:37:13,380
winter and what I want to do is find out

855
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:15,180
get a direct update from you about

856
00:37:20,270 --> 00:37:18,210
science friction and a quick overview

857
00:37:23,410 --> 00:37:20,280
for those people out there who may be

858
00:37:26,390 --> 00:37:23,420
new to the skeptic zone or skeptoid

859
00:37:28,490 --> 00:37:26,400
what's it all about so science friction

860
00:37:31,190 --> 00:37:28,500
is a feature documentary that we're

861
00:37:33,769 --> 00:37:31,200
executive producing Emory Emory is the

862
00:37:36,529 --> 00:37:33,779
director and it's about scientists who

863
00:37:40,220 --> 00:37:36,539
get misquoted or edited out of context

864
00:37:43,130 --> 00:37:40,230
on these air quotes science networks on

865
00:37:45,650 --> 00:37:43,140
television which happens more often than

866
00:37:48,769 --> 00:37:45,660
anyone would would would fear to think

867
00:37:50,900 --> 00:37:48,779
so you know you're the average cases

868
00:37:52,579 --> 00:37:50,910
you're a scientist and you go on to give

869
00:37:54,289 --> 00:37:52,589
your expert opinion on whatever this

870
00:37:57,799 --> 00:37:54,299
show is about ancient aliens or

871
00:38:00,260 --> 00:37:57,809
something and they often will edit the

872
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:00,270
words in a sentence even or they'll have

873
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:02,130
you start to say one thing they'll cut

874
00:38:06,109 --> 00:38:03,690
away to something else they'll cut back

875
00:38:07,549 --> 00:38:06,119
to you finishing a different thought the

876
00:38:10,250 --> 00:38:07,559
trying to make it sound like these

877
00:38:12,349 --> 00:38:10,260
legitimate scientists are supporting the

878
00:38:13,039 --> 00:38:12,359
idea that aliens built the pyramids or

879
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:13,049
what-have-you

880
00:38:17,539 --> 00:38:15,690
so we're going around we're interviewing

881
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:17,549
as many of these scientists as we can to

882
00:38:20,690 --> 00:38:18,690
whom this has happened we're

883
00:38:23,299 --> 00:38:20,700
interviewing some industry people who

884
00:38:25,430 --> 00:38:23,309
engage in this practice to explain how

885
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:25,440
and why they do it so it's going to be

886
00:38:32,510 --> 00:38:28,770
quite the interesting expose the

887
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:32,520
production update is we've just finished

888
00:38:35,539 --> 00:38:34,170
having the holidays write down so we're

889
00:38:38,690 --> 00:38:35,549
just kind of picking up after that

890
00:38:41,420 --> 00:38:38,700
before the holidays we sent a film crew

891
00:38:42,860 --> 00:38:41,430
out to Washington DC to the American

892
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:42,870
Geophysical Union

893
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:45,810
conference where they had 32,000 earth

894
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:47,760
scientists attend this conference it's

895
00:38:51,230 --> 00:38:48,810
out of this world

896
00:38:54,890 --> 00:38:51,240
hey there thirty two thousand thirty two

897
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:54,900
thousand yeah I wasn't there personally

898
00:38:59,240 --> 00:38:56,490
so I I don't know what it looked like

899
00:39:01,010 --> 00:38:59,250
but oh my god so we we had arranged in

900
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:01,020
advance with quite a few of them to sit

901
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:03,330
down with an interview about their their

902
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:05,130
experiences and many many of these these

903
00:39:10,700 --> 00:39:07,650
being earth scientists it'll be two

904
00:39:12,620 --> 00:39:10,710
basic cases they edit them to make it

905
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:12,630
sound like the giant earthquake is

906
00:39:17,230 --> 00:39:14,850
coming any second now to kill us all and

907
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:17,240
slide California into the ocean or the

908
00:39:22,460 --> 00:39:19,890
what is the mega volcano this the

909
00:39:24,170 --> 00:39:22,470
Yellowstone supervolcano yes that it's

910
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:24,180
going to explode any day now and wipe

911
00:39:29,810 --> 00:39:27,330
out civilization and both of these are

912
00:39:32,660 --> 00:39:29,820
old jokes in the geophysical community

913
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:32,670
and it happens they have to be so

914
00:39:39,110 --> 00:39:35,130
careful when they go on TV but no matter

915
00:39:40,850 --> 00:39:39,120
how careful you are they this happens so

916
00:39:43,460 --> 00:39:40,860
we collected some great interviews there

917
00:39:46,010 --> 00:39:43,470
and we're you've got at least three more

918
00:39:48,050 --> 00:39:46,020
little shooting tours planned one is

919
00:39:49,610 --> 00:39:48,060
going to go through the east coast one

920
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:49,620
is going to go through the southwest and

921
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:51,210
one is just going to be right there in

922
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:53,210
Los Angeles where the film crews based

923
00:39:58,190 --> 00:39:56,010
that's the update wow that's fantastic

924
00:40:03,740 --> 00:39:58,200
and for those people who don't know it's

925
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:03,750
it's being driven by the kind generosity

926
00:40:09,650 --> 00:40:06,450
if you can say that kind generosity the

927
00:40:12,530 --> 00:40:09,660
generosity of fans and listeners to skip

928
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:12,540
tide particularly which is yeah it's

929
00:40:18,950 --> 00:40:15,330
it's being crowdfunded which is unusual

930
00:40:20,630 --> 00:40:18,960
for a feature film because you say oh

931
00:40:21,830 --> 00:40:20,640
it's going to be in theater so it makes

932
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:21,840
lots of money so what do you need

933
00:40:26,750 --> 00:40:24,810
crowdfunding for so since we're we're

934
00:40:28,060 --> 00:40:26,760
executive producing at skeptoid media

935
00:40:30,380 --> 00:40:28,070
and we're an educational non-profit

936
00:40:31,790 --> 00:40:30,390
we're not just making a movie and giving

937
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:31,800
it out there to some studio here take

938
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:33,410
this put it in theaters make money on it

939
00:40:37,790 --> 00:40:35,850
we're gonna retain the educational

940
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:37,800
rights and so when you're retaining a

941
00:40:40,850 --> 00:40:39,450
certain amount of the rights you're not

942
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:40,860
going to get the same kind of a deal as

943
00:40:45,860 --> 00:40:42,210
you would when you normally sell a film

944
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:45,870
to a distributor so we're crowdfunding

945
00:40:50,270 --> 00:40:47,610
basically the whole production phase of

946
00:40:52,670 --> 00:40:50,280
it and then we're going to be able to

947
00:40:55,100 --> 00:40:52,680
include it in the teachers toolkit which

948
00:40:57,609 --> 00:40:55,110
is one of our growing and upcoming

949
00:40:59,950 --> 00:40:57,619
products here at skeptoid

950
00:41:01,780 --> 00:40:59,960
and it's going to be part of its going

951
00:41:03,250 --> 00:41:01,790
to have educational curricula that we go

952
00:41:04,390 --> 00:41:03,260
along with it and it's something that

953
00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:04,400
we're just gonna be able to give out to

954
00:41:11,650 --> 00:41:07,609
schools for free that's going to really

955
00:41:13,300 --> 00:41:11,660
help students understand what they're

956
00:41:15,339 --> 00:41:13,310
seeing in the media and learn to

957
00:41:17,530 --> 00:41:15,349
recognize that the media is not giving

958
00:41:19,839 --> 00:41:17,540
them the full story when it comes to

959
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:19,849
true science and true history because

960
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:21,290
those are the things that are it really

961
00:41:26,829 --> 00:41:25,010
abused the most in this pop media of

962
00:41:29,650 --> 00:41:26,839
television the entertainment industry

963
00:41:33,849 --> 00:41:29,660
when it can people go to find out more

964
00:41:36,130 --> 00:41:33,859
yeah so science friction TV is the

965
00:41:37,750 --> 00:41:36,140
website that's not only the crowdfunding

966
00:41:39,670 --> 00:41:37,760
website but it's also where we've got a

967
00:41:41,230 --> 00:41:39,680
little trailer and we've got some of the

968
00:41:44,589 --> 00:41:41,240
stories that were featuring from some of

969
00:41:45,940 --> 00:41:44,599
the scientists are up there and what you

970
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:45,950
should at least do is put your name on

971
00:41:49,359 --> 00:41:47,930
the mailing lists because every couple

972
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:49,369
weeks I'm sending out a new update for

973
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:51,770
who we've shot lately here's some news

974
00:41:55,720 --> 00:41:53,210
stories here's some exciting things

975
00:41:57,430 --> 00:41:55,730
happening with the film and of course

976
00:41:58,750 --> 00:41:57,440
donors if you want to donate to the film

977
00:42:00,069 --> 00:41:58,760
then you can get your name in the

978
00:42:02,230 --> 00:42:00,079
credits we're doing that whole thing

979
00:42:04,210 --> 00:42:02,240
you'll be able to get a digital download

980
00:42:06,910 --> 00:42:04,220
of the film and and there's other perks

981
00:42:09,790 --> 00:42:06,920
for people who may want to donate at at

982
00:42:11,109 --> 00:42:09,800
higher levels and that's a you can see

983
00:42:13,809 --> 00:42:11,119
all of that on the website science

984
00:42:15,339 --> 00:42:13,819
friction TV that's the clue folks that's

985
00:42:17,829 --> 00:42:15,349
where you should head to find out more

986
00:42:20,079 --> 00:42:17,839
now last time I was here we had a lot of

987
00:42:21,910 --> 00:42:20,089
fun we went out to a lava cave and we

988
00:42:24,220 --> 00:42:21,920
did a report and also we'd had a gag

989
00:42:27,460 --> 00:42:24,230
where I was hiding from you because you

990
00:42:28,059 --> 00:42:27,470
were Bigfoot but all joking aside well

991
00:42:30,849 --> 00:42:28,069
sort of

992
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:30,859
recently you and you were telling you

993
00:42:35,980 --> 00:42:33,050
this just yesterday that you attended a

994
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:35,990
Bigfoot meetup or a Bigfoot meeting or

995
00:42:41,260 --> 00:42:39,050
something like this yeah this is a total

996
00:42:43,420 --> 00:42:41,270
total change of gears here obviously so

997
00:42:45,780 --> 00:42:43,430
this is a Central Oregon which is you

998
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:45,790
know we're right near all of the major

999
00:42:50,589 --> 00:42:48,530
Bigfoot stories from history the the

1000
00:42:54,309 --> 00:42:50,599
Patterson Gimlin film was shot you know

1001
00:42:56,140 --> 00:42:54,319
just a few hours south of here and to

1002
00:42:58,870 --> 00:42:56,150
this day there's Bigfoot reports coming

1003
00:43:01,960 --> 00:42:58,880
out of right here where I live all the

1004
00:43:05,559 --> 00:43:01,970
time that the Cascade Range so here in

1005
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:05,569
Bend Oregon just I found on the meetup

1006
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:09,890
groups that they have a Bigfoot

1007
00:43:15,370 --> 00:43:12,770
of people who believe that bigfoot is

1008
00:43:16,780 --> 00:43:15,380
real they're absolutely persuaded and

1009
00:43:18,670 --> 00:43:16,790
they go out and they have regular

1010
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:18,680
camping trips which are fun whether you

1011
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:20,450
believe in Bigfoot or not and it's nice

1012
00:43:24,820 --> 00:43:22,130
to have some sort of organization to the

1013
00:43:27,670 --> 00:43:24,830
camping trip I guess a very nice very

1014
00:43:29,410 --> 00:43:27,680
nice group of folks so my wife and I we

1015
00:43:31,660 --> 00:43:29,420
went they held their meeting a little

1016
00:43:34,390 --> 00:43:31,670
pizza place here we went they were all

1017
00:43:37,150 --> 00:43:34,400
super super nice there was not a single

1018
00:43:39,550 --> 00:43:37,160
person there that you'd say is a raving

1019
00:43:41,550 --> 00:43:39,560
crazy Bigfoot lunatic there were even a

1020
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:41,560
couple of working scientists in

1021
00:43:47,980 --> 00:43:45,530
semi-related Sciences there and we had

1022
00:43:49,450 --> 00:43:47,990
had great conversation the main thrust

1023
00:43:51,370 --> 00:43:49,460
of the evening was everyone went around

1024
00:43:54,100 --> 00:43:51,380
and told what their Bigfoot experience

1025
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:54,110
was and there wasn't a single person

1026
00:43:59,620 --> 00:43:56,090
there who claims to have seen a Bigfoot

1027
00:44:03,000 --> 00:43:59,630
and by far the most common story that

1028
00:44:05,740 --> 00:44:03,010
many of them had was that they had heard

1029
00:44:07,540 --> 00:44:05,750
branches being struck together like

1030
00:44:09,700 --> 00:44:07,550
you've picked up a fallen limb and you

1031
00:44:11,020 --> 00:44:09,710
beat it against a tree they say they had

1032
00:44:13,030 --> 00:44:11,030
heard that and they all believe that

1033
00:44:15,370 --> 00:44:13,040
that's evidence that Bigfoot is out

1034
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:15,380
there for for some reason it's not clear

1035
00:44:18,730 --> 00:44:16,850
to me why they all think that that's an

1036
00:44:27,790 --> 00:44:18,740
activity that Bigfoot would be likely to

1037
00:44:30,730 --> 00:44:27,800
engage in yeah that's right it's really

1038
00:44:36,130 --> 00:44:30,740
popular you did you stood about 20

1039
00:44:38,350 --> 00:44:36,140
meters from me go to big log and I've

1040
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:38,360
since learned from from other people

1041
00:44:43,930 --> 00:44:40,610
that there are birds that that make

1042
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:43,940
these exact same sound incredibly loud I

1043
00:44:48,850 --> 00:44:47,090
don't know what kind of bird it is I was

1044
00:44:51,010 --> 00:44:48,860
told but I didn't recognize the species

1045
00:44:52,450 --> 00:44:51,020
it wasn't a woodpecker so I'm I I

1046
00:44:53,740 --> 00:44:52,460
shouldn't say more cuz I really don't

1047
00:44:57,220 --> 00:44:53,750
know what's going on in fact if someone

1048
00:44:59,620 --> 00:44:57,230
does use an episode of Bigfoot sounds d

1049
00:45:01,330 --> 00:44:59,630
yes on the skeptoid podcast just

1050
00:45:04,090 --> 00:45:01,340
recently I did an episode but it was on

1051
00:45:07,060 --> 00:45:04,100
vocalizations right so you know a

1052
00:45:09,010 --> 00:45:07,070
Bigfoot goes right up but the these

1053
00:45:11,170 --> 00:45:09,020
beliefs are that Bigfoot will kind of

1054
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:11,180
scream like we hear at the zoo like

1055
00:45:16,930 --> 00:45:13,520
chimpanzees do at the zoo or whatever or

1056
00:45:18,490 --> 00:45:16,940
we'll make some other sounds and Bigfoot

1057
00:45:20,890 --> 00:45:18,500
enthusiasts have collected quite a few

1058
00:45:22,210 --> 00:45:20,900
recordings and they've got them on you

1059
00:45:23,390 --> 00:45:22,220
can buy them on albums or they're just

1060
00:45:25,010 --> 00:45:23,400
all over the internet as

1061
00:45:27,980 --> 00:45:25,020
little sound clips you can listen to and

1062
00:45:31,279 --> 00:45:27,990
the funny thing is that virtually every

1063
00:45:33,950 --> 00:45:31,289
one of these you can find an analog from

1064
00:45:38,210 --> 00:45:33,960
the known animal kingdom a lot of them

1065
00:45:40,940 --> 00:45:38,220
are owls a lot of them are foxes one of

1066
00:45:44,660 --> 00:45:40,950
the most popular ones is a bird called a

1067
00:45:47,660 --> 00:45:44,670
common loon so there's there's very

1068
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:47,670
little mystery but there's also a lot of

1069
00:45:53,299 --> 00:45:51,450
really cool new stuff to learn I was I

1070
00:45:56,329 --> 00:45:53,309
was amazed at some of the animal sounds

1071
00:45:58,130 --> 00:45:56,339
when I was collecting them very

1072
00:45:59,120 --> 00:45:58,140
unexpected and if I heard these sounds

1073
00:46:00,890 --> 00:45:59,130
out in the woods in the middle of the

1074
00:46:03,470 --> 00:46:00,900
night I would go oh my god what the heck

1075
00:46:07,069 --> 00:46:03,480
is that it never would occur to me that

1076
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:07,079
it's a bird or an owl or or Lynx that

1077
00:46:12,260 --> 00:46:09,690
what Lynx sounds crazy just looking out

1078
00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:12,270
the window again and the other side over

1079
00:46:17,210 --> 00:46:15,839
there and we were out in the snow as I

1080
00:46:18,769 --> 00:46:17,220
said a little while ago to make a little

1081
00:46:20,750 --> 00:46:18,779
video and then we thought oh it's

1082
00:46:22,460 --> 00:46:20,760
getting too cold I would not like to go

1083
00:46:25,609 --> 00:46:22,470
out hunting for Bigfoot in the middle of

1084
00:46:29,660 --> 00:46:25,619
winter in Oregon to be honest well if

1085
00:46:31,010 --> 00:46:29,670
you're properly equipped yes if you yeah

1086
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:31,020
we've taken the Jeep up in the snow a

1087
00:46:34,069 --> 00:46:32,970
few times so that's that's a lot of fun

1088
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:34,079
I had to learn a whole new type of

1089
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:35,970
jeeping how do you get how do you Jeep

1090
00:46:39,710 --> 00:46:38,250
in the snow which is very different than

1091
00:46:41,630 --> 00:46:39,720
how you do it out in the desert or in

1092
00:46:44,299 --> 00:46:41,640
the sand or on rocks which is you know

1093
00:46:45,890 --> 00:46:44,309
most of my experiences and I've had to

1094
00:46:47,359 --> 00:46:45,900
buy all new clothes of course in

1095
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:47,369
everything and every one of my family

1096
00:46:53,029 --> 00:46:50,010
we've all got snowshoes now so do the

1097
00:46:54,890 --> 00:46:53,039
whole thing it's great I love this part

1098
00:46:56,569 --> 00:46:54,900
of the world I'm having a wonderful time

1099
00:46:59,329 --> 00:46:56,579
sitting back on this comfortable couch

1100
00:46:59,990 --> 00:46:59,339
and skeptoid headquarters looking at the

1101
00:47:03,020 --> 00:47:00,000
snow falling

1102
00:47:06,530 --> 00:47:03,030
but for now Brian Dunning thank you very

1103
00:47:06,540 --> 00:47:21,910
[Music]

1104
00:47:26,750 --> 00:47:24,350
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1105
00:47:29,090 --> 00:47:26,760
zone and a big hi to everybody in

1106
00:47:30,890 --> 00:47:29,100
Australia I hope I'll be back soon I'm

1107
00:47:35,150 --> 00:47:30,900
really just having a few days break here

1108
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:35,160
in Oregon I've got important Oh another

1109
00:47:39,770 --> 00:47:36,810
dog I've got important things to do in

1110
00:47:42,950 --> 00:47:39,780
California but a few days break for me

1111
00:47:44,650 --> 00:47:42,960
then back to California and some time or

1112
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:44,660
other I'll be heading back to Sydney and

1113
00:47:48,590 --> 00:47:46,770
again to all those people who are

1114
00:47:51,020 --> 00:47:48,600
waiting on packages from the sceptic

1115
00:47:53,450 --> 00:47:51,030
zone new patreon people I hope you

1116
00:47:55,490 --> 00:47:53,460
understand that I will get those to you

1117
00:47:58,520 --> 00:47:55,500
as soon as I can and I hope it'll be

1118
00:48:02,030 --> 00:47:58,530
worth the wait and thank you to those

1119
00:48:04,460 --> 00:48:02,040
people who are contribute to the

1120
00:48:08,450 --> 00:48:04,470
skeptics owned by patreon beta at

1121
00:48:10,970 --> 00:48:08,460
skeptic zone TV it means a lot to Stu

1122
00:48:12,620 --> 00:48:10,980
the show it means there is a show and it

1123
00:48:16,130 --> 00:48:12,630
means that everybody else listening for

1124
00:48:21,290 --> 00:48:16,140
free which is fine are benefiting from

1125
00:48:25,100 --> 00:48:21,300
your generosity and I hope you get a lot

1126
00:48:28,940 --> 00:48:25,110
out of the show every week a big shout

1127
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:28,950
out to Maynard and I look forward to

1128
00:48:34,100 --> 00:48:30,570
catching up to main out as soon as I get

1129
00:48:39,190 --> 00:48:34,110
home don't forget his podcasts over at

1130
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:39,200
Maynard comm dot a you and he like me

1131
00:48:44,780 --> 00:48:42,330
depends on the generosity of listeners

1132
00:48:46,910 --> 00:48:44,790
to help keep his podcast going like

1133
00:48:49,580 --> 00:48:46,920
bunga bunga so if you're missing on

1134
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:49,590
hearing if you miss hearing Maynard at

1135
00:48:53,090 --> 00:48:51,450
the moment on the sceptic zone head over

1136
00:48:55,589 --> 00:48:53,100
to Maynard calm day year for his

1137
00:48:58,620 --> 00:48:55,599
podcasts

1138
00:49:01,109 --> 00:48:58,630
I think I'm lost

1139
00:49:03,890 --> 00:49:01,119
grandma I've been wandering around for

1140
00:49:08,449 --> 00:49:03,900
some time now just on these back roads

1141
00:49:11,789 --> 00:49:08,459
when the outskirts are Bend it's just

1142
00:49:14,189 --> 00:49:11,799
it's beautiful Central Oregon is just

1143
00:49:17,370 --> 00:49:14,199
beautiful and I'm not getting any

1144
00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:17,380
kickback from the Oregon tourist boat or

1145
00:49:23,299 --> 00:49:21,250
anything like that but this week has a

1146
00:49:25,650 --> 00:49:23,309
[Applause]

1147
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:25,660
crunch along some more snow

1148
00:49:35,489 --> 00:49:27,729
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1149
00:49:38,189 --> 00:49:35,499
from Oregon you've been listening to the

1150
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:38,199
skeptic zone podcast please visit our

1151
00:49:47,670 --> 00:49:44,890
website at wwlp.com tax and to access

1152
00:49:51,269 --> 00:49:47,680
the bat catalog of episodes going back

1153
00:49:54,930 --> 00:49:51,279
to 2008 you can follow the skeptic zone

1154
00:49:57,329 --> 00:49:54,940
podcast on twitter at skeptic zone visit

1155
00:49:58,219 --> 00:49:57,339
our facebook page or leave a review on

1156
00:50:01,319 --> 00:49:58,229
itunes

1157
00:50:04,259 --> 00:50:01,329
you can also support the skeptic zone by

1158
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:04,269
a patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1159
00:50:09,390 --> 00:50:07,690
podcast is an independent production the

1160
00:50:11,489 --> 00:50:09,400
views and opinions expressed on the

1161
00:50:13,859 --> 00:50:11,499
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1162
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:13,869
of Australian skeptics or any other